Episode 2
· 01:06:26
Hi. Welcome to episode 2 of Everything is Interesting, the show where I talk to people about whatever they're enthusiastic about. Today, I'm talking to Sean Naughton all about Eurovision Song Contest. Let's jump right in. Hey, Sean.
Travis:Thanks for joining me today. Do you wanna give a quick intro, and then we'll dive right in?
Sean:Yeah. Sounds good. Thanks for having me, Travis. I, my name is Sean Naughton. I'm a director of engineering at a Fintech startup company.
Sean:Spent my career doing a lot of software development, a lot of back end in particular, but, priding my hand at the management thing for the past 16 months or so. And I'm not I think I'm vibing with it. It's kind of nice, you know, getting the people side of everything instead of just the the tech, different types of problems to solve, but they're they're plentiful.
Travis:Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm super glad that you're here and excited to chat. So we met, just about a month ago at Laracon in Dallas, which for people who don't know, is a software conference, around Laravel, the framework. And, we just happened to meet, and we're part of the online community.
Travis:And I don't know if we'd even talked before Laracon, but we were both there. And so we're like, oh, hey. Let's, you know, say hi. And I think if I remember right, I used my I have this question I often use with people when I meet them. That's like, so, you know, outside of work and stuff, like, what are you into?
Travis:Like, what's your thing? You know, I like that as like a because everybody asks like, what do you do for work? Yeah. Yeah. So I like that.
Travis:Like, what's, what are you actually into? You know, what do you, what do you get excited about? And you immediately and your answer immediately, I was like, oh, you're going to be on the podcast. Like, of course, you know, clearly. So your answer was Eurovision Song Contest.
Travis:So yeah. Tell me about that. How did you get it? Or do you wanna I guess, for people who aren't familiar, like, what is Eurovision Song Contest? Like, what
Sean:the heck is that? Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it's funny, you know, you were very explicit with the ask of interest. But, for most people who meet me, I would say 80 plus percent of them will end up learning about Eurovision with
Travis:your conversation.
Sean:It's really become a little bit of an obsession of mine, over the past 4 years or so. Yeah. For everybody out there, Eurovision Song Contest is I mean, it kind of what it sounds like. It's a song contest that's been going on in Europe, since 1956. It started as a bit of a one, a trial for international broadcasting, but also as a way to unify the the countries in Europe as a post World War 2, kind kind of initiative.
Sean:Yeah. It's pretty straightforward. Every country, and we'll we'll get into, like, is it actually country, at some point, but every country will send one song, one artist, one song to, the event, and they all perform basically within one day or throughout 1 week. And, voting all happens pretty much in real time, and one will come out triumphant. But yeah, it's it's a really fun way for me at least to explore music I never would have sought out before, you know, soundings and stylings that just, you know, who would have thought, oh, I should go try to find some electronic flamenco, like, what is that?
Travis:I wouldn't have even put those two words together.
Sean:Never. Never. But it was one of my favorites in 2023. So Okay.
Travis:Awesome. Alright. Okay. So, yeah, I guess, I mean, that kind of answers my question. So it sounds like it's a pretty wide range of, like, like, I guess you might initially think like, oh, everybody's gonna do, like, their traditional, you know, like, whatever their cultural, like, traditional music is or whatever.
Travis:But is that not the case? Is it pretty all over the place?
Sean:It is. It is. And and this is maybe something that kind of has varied through history. Even languages that you perform in has, had different rule sets through the past, 70 years that it's been going on or so. I would say there's a couple camps out there in the community and the fandom.
Sean:Like, I tend to be one that's like, give me your authentic self. I wanna hear the sounds of your country. But there's others out there that are like, just send me the best of what you have in it, you know, okay, so be it. You know, Sweden, for instance, is a pop powerhouse. You know, I think, like, in the industry, United States, the UK, and Sweden are kind of like your top names in that space.
Sean:And you don't really get much of, you know, what is the sound of Sweden? I I honestly couldn't even tell you because they just crank out these top tracks of of Very well.
Travis:And,
Sean:actually, in fact, in, 1999, I believe it was, there was a rule, that was abolished between, like, 19 what is it? 1970 or so. I have a note about this.
Travis:You came prepared a lot.
Sean:Yeah. In 1977, it became a rule that you had to perform in one of your national languages. And it stayed that way for 22 or 23 years until 1999. And then that was abolished. And now you can perform in any language whatsoever.
Travis:Interesting.
Sean:There have been 25 contests since the 99. And in that time, there's been one country that sent a song in Swedish, and it was Finland.
Travis:That's that wouldn't make any sense. That's crazy. Why did they send because art isn't Finnish like really, like linguistically, like very different from other Nordic languages. Isn't that like a thing?
Sean:It is. It is for sure. It's it's definitely like an interesting one. I think it's almost a little closer to like Estonian and some of their southern and eastern neighbors than it is to the western Scandinavian countries. But they are, you know, borders.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. They're neighbors. So I'm sure there's plenty of crossover with the Swedish language there.
Travis:Yeah. Okay. Interesting. That's funny. So after they abolished that rule when okay.
Travis:Now you can perform in any language. Do people tend to perform, like, do they tend to perform in English just because of universal appeal or what tends to or is there even, like, a consistent thing there?
Sean:Yeah. It I would say it's definitely English heavy tends to be a lot of the case, in the from so I just as a history, I kinda I got involved really heavily in 2020. So I'm I'm pretty new to knowing this world. So all of what I know is kinda just like research on the side that I've learned about the history. But from what I've gathered through the community, the 2000 and and to early teens, even upwards towards 2020, it tended to be a trend that, like, more and more would send in English because of the wide appeal.
Sean:Mhmm. During the era when national languages were mandated, you started to see Ireland and the UK winning a lot. And it's because English is a national language for them, which I think might be in part I am not sure, but I would suspect that's part of why they abolish that rule. Yeah. But in recent years, the past few, we're starting to see a bit of a trend of, native languages coming back or ancillary native languages.
Sean:Yeah. Okay. So there was a song Francetta sent 2 years ago in 2022 that was actually sung in Breton, which I hadn't even been familiar with until I went down this rabbit hole of, like, what's Breton? Oh, it's from, like, earlier days of Western France on the border of Spain sort of area.
Travis:That's cool. Okay. Interesting. Do do you see people performing in like a song in more than one language? Or can they can they do that?
Sean:Like, yeah, they can
Travis:do English and then throw in some of a native language or something for like a kind of embrace the culture kind of thing?
Sean:Yeah. So I'd have to I don't know the offhand the tally on this one song, but there was a song Netherlands, sent out this year in 2024, actually, by a guy named, Juicy Kline. And it's called Euro Papa. And it's kind of a little bit of a tribute to his father who taught him, you know, the there are no borders, like, go experience the world. And so the whole song's about him going around Europe, and you'll hear, like, a little toss of German in there, a little toss of Italian.
Sean:That one's, like, a little more just, like, oh, we're through in a nod towards it. Whereas last year, Chechnya had sent a song, by a band named Vesna, And that had 4 primary languages were full verses were sung in either English, Bulgarian, Ukrainian, or I'm blanking on the Czech Czech itself. Yeah. So you'll see like, a mix and match there.
Travis:Cool. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Is there, is there like a like, is it super competitive?
Travis:Like, is there like, prize money? Or is it just kind of like, you know, bragging rights like, oh, yeah, we won kind of thing. Like, what's the what's the deal with that?
Sean:Yeah, it's mostly I would say mostly bragging rights. You know, the winners do get a trophy, and and all. I don't remember offhand that there's like a cash prize. I feel like there's not really. And in fact, the, broadcasters that are sending these artists in are generally funding the entry going into it as well.
Sean:So it's kind of like pay to get in, you know, you just kind of want to do it to have your name out there and like, be a part of this thing. But yeah, not it. No super big, like, winning bonus outside
Travis:of the church. Oh, you won American Idol or whatever. Now you have a record deal or something. It's just like, it's more embracing the kind of for fun.
Sean:For sure. And I mean, the exposure is helpful too. Yeah. Sure. 20 22s winner was, or no, 2021, sorry, was a band named, Monoskin from Italy.
Sean:And, their song Sitti e Buoni is actually something you'll hear on American radio now. They kind of like blew up into global, spotlight. Yeah, because of the win in Eurovision. So yeah, You know, there's the benefit there.
Travis:Yeah. That's cool. I guess there's that's probably more, more of a thing in the last, I guess, you know, 25 years or whatever than historically, right, with the Internet and, like, oh, it's easier for people for them to get noticed everywhere. That's neat. Okay.
Travis:So you mentioned that you you got into this in 2020. How did you yeah. Like, tell me about that. How did you was this like a COVID thing? Like, I'm looking for new hobbies or like what, you know, like, how did you get into this?
Sean:Yeah, it wasn't COVID specific at the time. In fact, I got I probably got into it like a couple months before March that year, like, so just before the pandemic happened. I was living in Baltimore, Maryland at the time, and I was working in Manhattan. And so I would actually commute each week Monday morning to Manhattan, stay with family in the area, and then go back home on Fridays.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:And I was staying with my brother who lives in Brooklyn, New York, and he and his, now wife, brought me into it. They're like, Oh,
Travis:so they were RB fans or whatever.
Sean:Yeah, like she had known about it through like, you know, earlier years of her life. And then I was just spending the night and they put on a few of the songs. And it took like, probably one song for me to be like, this is definitely my jam. Yeah.
Travis:Do you have like a music background or anything? Or like, theater type stuff? Or like, Yeah, what?
Sean:I do. So firstly, I'd say like piano is the one thing in life that I regret. I, I trained with a Russian master for 8 years when I was a child. Woah. But then I was 13, and I was playing 5 sports and 3 instruments and all the things.
Sean:And I I had to cut down a little, and I chose piano, which now in hindsight in my, you know, mid thirties, I'm like, oh, man, I wish I was, like, 20 more years seasoned practice at this thing. But then in in high school, I also got involved in theater. So you hit the nail on the head both ways. It was something I did for my 4 years in high school. I did it as an on campus job in college.
Sean:And then I volunteered at my high school for a few years after college as I was getting into my career, a little bit more from the stagehand back end side of everything. But I did do some performance myself. And I think
Travis:appreciation for the the the like the performance aspect of it. And yeah.
Sean:Yeah, yeah. Like, if you put my my personality in my high school body, I'd probably be on stage all of the time. Yeah. Okay. The fact that I just didn't have that confidence or anything.
Sean:For sure. Right.
Travis:Who does in high school? Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. Right. But, but, yeah, I I think, like, the combination of music, which I I I very much am attuned to with theater in a performative way, but also the stage. Like, what are these elements you're bringing on to it? I I kinda love to take all of that in.
Sean:And there's, like, a campiness to it too that I think also parallels to a bit of the theater world.
Travis:Yeah. I was gonna ask about that because when we when we talked in person, you mentioned that that it's kinda kinda campy, like, doesn't take itself too seriously. Is that maybe a good way of putting it? Yeah. Yeah.
Travis:Tell tell me, is that, like, pretty across the board? Like, everybody's like, oh, yeah. We know we're being a little silly, and we're we're all about it kind of thing.
Sean:Yeah. I think it might vary depending on the country. Some tend to be a little bit more unhinged than others. You know, Finland definitely is just there having fun most of the time. Okay.
Sean:Whereas, you know, France will have a tendency to send, like, a proper French ballad, or Italy might do that a lot of the time too. They'll mix it up. So I I won't, like, put any of these countries in one little bucket. But, Yeah. I think broadly, like, it's known that this is kind of a campy, kitschy event, and we're we're just out here having fun.
Travis:Yeah. Cool. Alright. Have you I'm guessing maybe not. And since it's you've only been kind of into it for the past, I guess, 4 years now.
Travis:Have you been in person to see your vision?
Sean:I have not. And it's a debate that my partner and I go through a lot actually. We've taken to hosting a party ourselves every year for it, which started in 20, we've done it now 3 years in a row. I think we invited 12 people in 2022 and 9 showed up. We invited 50 people in 2023 and 20 something showed up.
Sean:We invited almost 90 people this year. And, it's like 35 or so showed up to it. And I really enjoy the hosting aspect of it. Mhmm. And, you know, beyond that, it's actually a made for TV event.
Sean:And so you'll get things like graphic overlays to performances, green screen usage that being in person, you will have a different experience for the audio quality from what I understand isn't necessarily the greatest in person because they're really fine tuning it to be made by TV. Yeah. So the combination of those, I think, means me towards like, one day I'm gonna have to I think.
Travis:Sure. Yeah. Right. Like, how could you not? Yeah.
Sean:Yeah.
Travis:But the better experience and the community aspect and like sharing this this thing that you love with people. Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. Trying to just get more more Americans aware of this thing. There aren't any. Right.
Sean:Yeah.
Travis:Yeah. Okay. Alright. That's cool. You you touched on the, you know, like, that it's made for TV, like, for broadcast.
Travis:And you I think you mentioned earlier that it's the broadcasters in each country that actually like choose and send the acts. So, yeah. Tell me, I mean, how, however much you know about the history of that, like that seems unique. Like it's not like, I don't know other you know, like American Idol or whatever kind of The Voice kind of stuff, you know, like
Sean:Yeah, yeah, it's not like, you know, the Olympics where it's like country sending athletes. Right. So yeah, this this whole thing was, a brainchild and created by the European Broadcasting Union, the EBU. Right. Not the European Union.
Travis:Right.
Sean:And that distinction has a couple of ramifications. 1
Travis:You touched on the countries thing.
Sean:Exactly.
Travis:Okay. Yeah. So tell me about that.
Sean:Yeah. So it's not the country sending it. It's a broadcaster from that country sending that artist and that song. And there are some countries out there, like Germany has 4 primary broadcasters that all, like, operate within one governing body. But it's one of those 4 that is the one that's choosing and sending or organizing the sending of an artist.
Sean:And actually, Germany is a good example because the one that's currently operating is, NDR. Do not know what it stands for. I just know the acronym. And they've been on a little bit of a rough streak in their performance the past number of years. So there's a lot of people out there that are calling for MDR to be the one that sends the artist
Travis:because they think
Sean:it might be a little bit more authentic or have a better chance. The the other interesting thing that comes out of the distinction between EBU and EU is when you look at the names of the countries that are going in there, you might question like, wait, is Turkey actually in there? Is Azerbaijan part of Europe? I don't know. No, they're not in the EU necessarily.
Sean:But they are a part of the European Broadcasting Union. And that's why you'll see some of those Western Asian and, Northern African countries that have historically been a part of it at one point or another.
Travis:Gotcha. Yeah. So do you do you ever get, you meant, like, Morocco or Algeria or anything like that? Did they ever participate? I'll cut
Sean:the check. I
Travis:feel like I remember looking at I like skimmed. I didn't want to like do too much pre research because I don't want to like know stuff I want to ask you but like I remember seeing like a map showing that like the broadcast areas and it was like I think maybe parts of like you mentioned Northern Africa are included in that.
Sean:Yeah. So I mean, I'm just doing a quick scan because I I know there's like 53 countries that over the past 70 years have at one point or another been in it. Morocco has, it looks like they were in it only 1 year, 1980. And that's it.
Travis:Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So I I'm assuming that those broadcasters would be the equivalent of, like, ABC, NBC, CBS in the United States, like, similar kind of deal. Okay.
Sean:Yeah, yeah. I actually am not really familiar with like the radio broadcasting industry in America, but whatever the equivalent is.
Travis:Oh, it's the radio broadcasters. It's not television broadcasters.
Sean:You know what? Piece of information I don't know yet.
Travis:Okay. I'll have to look
Sean:that one up. Yeah.
Travis:Maybe Leave that to the leave that to the listener to find out. Not that that's the distinction not that that distinction matters. That's that's super interesting. Cool. All right.
Travis:So, okay. So, so do you, you touched on a little bit of the behind the scenes drama of like, like in Germany, like, oh, there's people saying like, oh, we need to switch broadcasters because this one's not doing a good job of picking or whatever. So we're not competitive. What other are there other interesting, like, kind of fan drama, you know, mist intrigue behind the scenes that most people don't see?
Sean:There's plenty. Are you familiar with iceberg charts?
Travis:No. Oh, oh, just in the generic sense of, like, where you see, like, the the part that's above the waterline, and then Yeah. Yeah.
Sean:Right. And, like, the deeper you go, it's like the more niche and, like, less aware you are. Yeah. Every year, there's a Eurovision iceberg that's put together. And, week by week, as things are happening, people are adding to the Eurovision iceberg, far more than I'm aware of all of the things, but it's like, oh, you know, Nemo decided to not go with the pink flamingo outfit anymore, and they trashed it.
Sean:Like, it gets kinda detailed.
Travis:Detailed. Okay.
Sean:There's some more, like, very on the surface, you know, controversies or otherwise as well. Like, you know, for instance, Russia was banned in 2022 due to the invasion of Ukraine. This year was a lot of controversy and and fighting over the participation of Israel with everything going on from October 7th. Yeah. You all have, like Turkey.
Sean:I forget what it is. But I think, like, they thought they should win in 2011. They didn't, and they've been holding a grudge ever since, and they've not participated since 2013 now. Okay. You'll get you'll get a a decent little bit of that.
Sean:Yeah. And then also in the selection of songs, you can also uncover a decent amount of controversy. Last year in Poland, they did it through a national final selection, meaning it was actually, like, its own mini Eurovision. Okay. Not just, like, oh, you're gonna go.
Sean:Let's have a contest for it. And their voting system was set up in a way that a lot of people would argue they purposefully rigged it against one of the entries, in favor of another due to like, you know, oh, the the upper class of Poland doesn't like XYZ about people. And so they're gonna make it happen. And, that was a decent little bit of a blowout there. So, yeah, plenty, plenty of controversy that occurs, throughout the season.
Sean:Plenty of controversy that occurs, throughout the season.
Travis:Yeah. Interesting. So you you touched on that on the voting, like, in, like, in Poland for their local contest. What how does voting or judging or whatever, like, how does that work at the main the main event, whatever the you know? Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. Okay. So I'll do main event, and then I can also give a little bit about how the national selections can all kind of vary. They they all take different approaches to it. So voting in the actual Eurovision song contest is another one of these things that's gone through iterations over time.
Sean:Originally, you know, back in 1956, it was a jury vote period and vote for whoever you want. 1 year later, they realized, wow, okay, we shouldn't be allowed to vote for our own country. So now it was jury vote, but you have to vote for somebody else. 97 is when they started to trial televoting as that started to become more prominent. In that 1st year, I think it was only 5 of the broadcasters that had a televote.
Sean:But it was it was very much a trial. And then in 1998, the year later, almost all, competing broadcasters had a televoting procedure. And I think it was like, 2,004. So when they mandated that televoting had to be a part of it, and help with, like, infrastructure for any countries that didn't have good ones. Let's see what else is there.
Travis:Well, so so for the televoting, so if it's like so like it's being say it's being broadcast in in the UK, right, by the broadcaster there, and so people in the UK are voting. Are they then is it not like a is this sort of like an electoral college situation where you're like allocating that country's votes based on the televoting in that country?
Sean:Yeah, exactly. So, the way it operates nowadays is it's 5050 split. 50% of the votes come from a jury of industry experts in each country. 50% comes from televote. Regardless, whatever you choose to be number 1, whether that's by jury or by televote, that or that vote gets 12 points.
Sean:2nd gets 10, 3rd gets 8, and then it continues down 765 all the way to 1. So basically the top 10 will achieve that number of points. And then you just sum that up across all votes across all countries, and you get the total amount.
Travis:So each country is getting is allocating the same number of points. It's not like population weighted or something. Yeah, cool.
Sean:Exactly. And up until last year, the votes would only be coming from participating countries. Mhmm. But as of last year, they actually created a separate televote only rest of the world category. Oh.
Sean:So for any country not participating that year or from outside of Europe or wherever you were able to vote. And so yes, I did spend $20 to cast 20 votes last year
Travis:and this year. $20. Okay.
Sean:It's a dollar a vote.
Travis:So is it is it a dollar vote for everyone everywhere? Is that like just how it works? Or?
Sean:I think that varies by country. I know it definitely varies by country for participating countries. I'm not sure how it works with the rest of the world.
Travis:Yeah,
Sean:if that was like a dollar a vote across the board, but there's some like mild variance variance to that. Okay.
Travis:So that's one way, I guess, of like funding for it or whatever.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Make some extra coin.
Travis:Interesting. Is it still televoting or is it are you like online voting?
Sean:Yeah. It's an app now.
Travis:Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Sean:Alright. That makes sense. I mean, they they have televote lines, app lines, website lines.
Travis:Sure. Yeah. That'd be pretty wild if it was still everyone, like, calling in. I remember, that brings me back to, like, childhood. I remember watching we would watch I think it was called, America's Funniest Home Videos or some show like that.
Travis:And I think that was like, okay, call in and cast your vote, you know?
Sean:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That even the early days of American Idol you were talking about, like, I remember sitting on the like, getting the busy signal and, like, trying to pound at it to oh, man. I'm blanking on the guy's name. Oh, too long ago for what I was voting for.
Sean:Yeah.
Travis:Cool. Cool. Interesting. Okay. What, what is something that you think should change about Eurovision?
Sean:That's a very good question. I would say I definitely have national selections that I take issue with on how they approach it.
Travis:You mentioned this. Yes. How does that go there? Yeah.
Sean:Because those can vary, you know, some will say some do internal selections, meaning industry decides who's gonna go. And there's kinda 2 paths there. It's either they're selecting artist and song, or some of them will actually say, here's the artist, and then they'll put an open call for song submissions. And songwriters will then be, like, here, this is what I think that artist should perform at Eurovision. Yeah.
Sean:I think, like, Georgia did that this year, and there is something around 300 songs submitted for their artists to perform.
Travis:That seems very interesting, but also like, may maybe almost risky, like you could end up with like a weird combination of like, oh, that artist doesn't really like vibe with the song or whatever.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. Actually, we did see that happen last year or a couple years ago. I forget when they were on. A guy named Duncan Lawrence won for I think it was Netherlands back in 2019.
Sean:And it's a song called Arcade. This is another one you might hear on American radio because it blew up. And the year after that, they had Duncan Lawrence pick hand select a couple of people and then, like, put a song together for them. And it just did not pan out well at all. So you're definitely right.
Sean:Like there is risk involved. But Yeah. There's probably risks no matter, you know, there's a risk to any of them. Sure. Yeah.
Sean:Some of the others do their own national final, so their own independent contest. And those are, of course, my favorite because it's just more content. It's more. Yeah.
Travis:It's
Sean:great. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Give it to me.
Sean:And there, you'll get varying voting systems, for how they do it. Malta is one of the strangest to me. They get 1 9th of the vote comes from the televote, 8 9ths goes to the jury. Feels super arbitrary.
Travis:Yeah. That seems very arbitrary. Like, what what committee meeting led to that? Just letting them open to 9ths.
Sean:Yeah. They they've changed it a good amount over the years. And I think it's like, how have we been performing? And if we're not performing well, maybe let's try, like, weighting it towards juries to see if it makes us do better. And if it doesn't, maybe we should be weighting more towards televoting.
Sean:And I think like, different countries have a different perspective on if they trust their people to choose. If I'm not mistaken, the UK tends to be like, we should never do a national final because our people will choose the worst possible way.
Travis:We don't have good taste and we know it.
Sean:Which is funny coming from the UK with so many legends.
Travis:Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's yeah. That's a good point.
Travis:Okay. So what are the are there others that you, like, take issue with? Or yeah.
Sean:So I would say Poland last year is a good example of one that I just didn't like because of the ease of rigging the system.
Travis:Okay. Yeah. What happened? How did they Yeah.
Sean:So when you win by a landslide for a televote, for instance, like, you get 80% of all the votes. If you boil that down to the 12, 10, 8 to 1 style of point system, even though you absolutely destroyed it, you still only get 2 more points than 2nd place.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:Right? And so this individual, g, Jan, was his name and honestly would have been my selection, one of my favorite songs from last season, won by a landslide in the televote. Only got 12 points, got the 12 points from the televote.
Travis:So they're structured the same as the main Eurovision, like they structured the the internal the national one. Okay. Right.
Sean:Right. The jury vote, however, put him I think it was at a point where he got, like, 6 points or so, and they gave 12 points to the woman who ended up going named Blanca. So now Blanca just needs to get in, like, above 5th place in the televote, and she'll be in. Yeah. And it just, like, that power to the jury, I think was a little rough to swallow.
Sean:And, generally, I think, like, how much what percentage did you gain of votes and breaking that percentage up into, the points you receive makes more sense to me at the smaller scale. I think when you have 30 to 40 countries all voting in the final for Eurovision itself, the 12, 108 style can be a bit better because you got a larger sample size.
Travis:Yes. Exactly.
Sean:Just the one that's where I I kind of take issue to that ability for rigging a
Travis:little bit. Yeah, the small sample size. Are you like it's it can cancel out very easily like, yeah.
Sean:Yeah. So that that I just Yeah, not not quite my my cup of tea. I'm trying to think if there's anything about like the contest itself, though. Nothing's, like, coming to mind, but I'll simmer on that through the conversation. Maybe something
Travis:will pop up. You mentioned it's like so so every all the participating countries are sending their performers, and they all perform in a pretty short time span, but then am I right that there's then like some of them go through to the finals? Like how what's, how many, how does that work? How do they get picked to go through? Is that vote tele vote?
Travis:Like, what's the whole Yeah. How does that all work?
Sean:Yeah. So on Eurovision itself, up until some year that I don't remember, there was only a final. It all happened on one day, and that was it. Okay. But then it was probably sometime in the the nineties if I'm if I'm remembering.
Sean:There were just enough countries now being a part of it, like 30, 36, whatever, that, like, doing it in one day didn't make sense, so they introduced the semifinal. Okay. And now they've actually introduced and have 2 separate semifinals.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:And so the countries participating will go through those 2 semifinals. Ten from each of the semis will then move on to the final, and then the final takes place, 20. Okay. Yeah. And that always happens on, like, a Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday in 1 week, is when it goes on.
Sean:And national selections will follow similar or, you know, kind of similar patterns. Some of them have semis and a final and the same kinda, like, whittle down over time. Some might just have one big day of, you know, 20 songs, and that's the final period. Yeah.
Travis:Cool. So in those semifinals, are they do doing, like, crowd, like, televoting for those to who goes through also? Yeah. Same structure?
Sean:Yeah. Originally, it was split 20 or 5050 televote and jury. 1 or 2 years ago, they changed it, and now the semifinal is only televote, actually. And and the jury only participates in, the final. The jury still votes during the semis, just in case of like tie breaker or other things going wrong.
Sean:Right. But, yeah, at this point, it's televote only for the semis.
Travis:Cool. So, so for your your watch party, do you do semi final watch parties or just a final watch party?
Sean:For for the big blowout, it's the final watch party.
Travis:But of course, you're watching.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. When it when it's semi time, like, you know, me and my partner are gonna be sitting there watching and like, you know, if there's somebody that lives nearby and is really invested, they might come in for it too. But, not at all. The big bash is just Saturday for the show.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah.
Travis:Cool. Awesome. What's what is your favorite thing about Eurovision? What really yeah. What's your favorite thing about it?
Sean:It's the variety of sound for me. You know, variety variety is the spice of life. It's it very much is true for me. You know, maybe this is part the ADHD brain that just like needs to bounce around. But like, I get bored with one thing too long a lot at a time.
Sean:And just having so many different sounds to explore things I've never seen before heard before. I think like that that is probably the thing that draws me the most. But then also, the community is pretty, pretty solid. You know, I'm decently active during the on season in the subreddit, and it's a pretty wholesome welcoming place. There's some other areas of the internet that are a little less so and a little bit more about it.
Sean:But, yeah, the community is like a really solid thing and the variety of sound.
Travis:Cool. So okay. So you mentioned during the on season, like, you know, like, people use that talking about sports and stuff. So what is the on season for Eurovision?
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll start by saying there's such a thing as a Eurovision New Year, and it's not January 1st. The Eurovision New Year is September 1st. The reason is there's a rule that states in order for a song to be eligible to be in Eurovision, it cannot have been released prior to September 1st of the preceding year.
Travis:Okay. Alright. Least meaning published, whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:And so for those, you know, we wouldn't hear it so much here in in America. But, in in Europe and all, like, if you hear a song on September 2nd, maybe that could be a Eurovision song. Okay. Not many are released that far in advance. A lot are, like, released, you know, in the year Eurovision's taking place, you know, January 1st and on, but it it could happen.
Sean:So Okay. That's, like, the September 1st to August 31st is, like, a Eurovision year. The on season this is a me definition. You know, I'm sure somebody out there might have a different one, but I consider it to be really, like, January to May. Okay.
Sean:The reason I do for me, that's the case is most of the national finals and most of the songs getting, like, you know, you find out that it's gonna happen, happens as of January 1st and beyond. Albania technically typically does, like, 3rd week of December national finals, so we could go a little bit earlier there. But January to May is when, like, the action's really happening. You're watching semi or you're watching national finals. You're getting songs released.
Sean:You're starting to, like, observe the interactions of the participants with each other. The in April, they tour around major cities in Europe and put concerts on every weekend leading up to it. Oh, wow. Okay. And so when you asked it, like, would you go?
Sean:The thing I really wanna go to is the free parties. That's what they're called. Yeah. Because those are proper concerts. They were made to be concerts.
Sean:They're not made to
Travis:be concert venue. Like yeah.
Sean:Yeah. But yeah. So I would consider January to May to be the on season of Eurovision. Gotcha. And then you kind of ride the, like, week or 2 after high, and then it's June, and you're sitting there, like, oh, man, why is it not January yet?
Travis:Going into withdrawals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That cert that, like, so much echoes a lot of, you know, sporty sports fan kind of, like, getting really excited.
Travis:And then it's like, oh, it's over. Yeah. I can't wait. I kinda like, alright. Few more months.
Sean:Exactly.
Travis:That's funny. I bet that's funny. There's, like, a lot
Sean:of emotional parallel to it, honestly. You know? As a kid, I got all worked up about sports, but, I've kinda grown out of them a bit. I don't follow anything religiously, and no team's loss is gonna make me that upset. Right.
Sean:But a Eurovision loss of something I love, that will cripple me.
Travis:So you've transferred that into such to a new place.
Sean:Yeah This is truly my sporting event of the year now Yeah
Travis:That's awesome That's cool Have you Have you made any like conversions like brought people into the fold and they're now like not just like yeah, I watch it, but like, they're really into
Sean:it. Yeah, I have a couple of them. I I'd say like, 3 people in particular that went like full hog into it. And you know, about 20 to 30 others that are like, keep me posted. And I definitely wanna watch when it comes on.
Travis:Stay in the loop. Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. Cool. I've even reconverted a couple of Europeans who, you know, grew up watching it, but, like, lost interest over time. And they were coworkers. And I was going on a rant about it, Like, even at my company at our weekly all hands, when it's on season, I give, like, a weekly update as to who my favorites are and my predictions.
Travis:Love it. Oh, that's awesome. Okay. That brings me to then, is there betting? Is there your is there, like, a Eurovision betting market?
Sean:There's absolutely a Eurovision betting market. I have not done it myself, but there is a website called Eurovisionworld.com. Good place to just keep track of the schedule and all this, they have an odds page. And there's an odds page for every national final and Eurovision itself final, semifinals. And there's something I don't know, like 20 to 30 bookmakers that are listed out there that are given odds on this thing.
Travis:That's awesome. I wonder if any do you like, can you go to Vegas and like put money on Eurovision?
Sean:What can't you put money on Eurovision?
Travis:Or like now that, you know, sports betting is legal in the States. Like I wonder if any of the like sports betting, companies like sites let you bet on Eurovision. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I have an untapped market there. Probably, probably like, I
Sean:don't I don't know that I see FanDuel or DraftKings putting it out there anytime soon. But there's definitely apps like I've seen, you know, Redditors and whatnot talking about the bets that they're making. So something's out there. I just haven't figured out
Travis:where I wonder it almost feels like that would take away from the purity of it a little bit. But maybe that's just me. I guess, you know, people have different relationships with
Sean:that. Yeah. You know, like, I don't know. For me, it might be I don't know how people betting on sports view this, but, like, I really wanted Switzerland to win this year. And I actually tended to think they probably would, but there was definitely a chance Croatia might.
Sean:And do I wanna, like, place my bet on Croatia and be rooting for my bet? Or do I wanna root where my heart is? Yeah. And I don't I don't personally wanna have that dichotomy going on.
Travis:Being pulled in 2 different directions. Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah.
Travis:Yeah. That's cool. Alright. Okay. So we haven't even, I guess, mentioned this yet, but there is a movie called, is it called Eurovision Contest Fire Saga?
Travis:Maybe that's I think that's the full title of the movie. I can't remember. Anyway, you know what
Sean:I'm talking about. I do.
Travis:Will Ferrell and Rachel McAdams on Netflix. I don't remember when that came out not that long ago.
Sean:It came so it was actually funny enough. It was supposed to be released in, like, late April or early May of 2020
Travis:Okay.
Sean:To coincide with the actual event. And the just so happened that 2020 is the only year since 1956 Eurovision did not take place because of the pandemic. Yep. We had the whole set of artists and songs, some of which are, to this day, my favorites that I've come across, but the event never actually occurred. And so the movie got pushed out to June of that year.
Sean:So June, July.
Travis:Interesting. Okay. Alright. So opinions on the movie. Do you like it?
Sean:I'm a fan. I've watched it, I don't know, 4 or 5 times at this point. I've shown it it's kind of like a way I help people, like, get Yeah. Interested in the first place. But
Travis:Yeah.
Sean:Yeah, I I think it does a great job at encapsulating the spirit and vibe of the contest. You can definitely see the campiness. But there's, like, one song that they do, protect their man. Right? Or is there or, like, I'm the lion of love, and it's this, like, extravagant
Travis:The Russian guy. Yes. Yes.
Sean:So there's songs you could imagine hearing in your
Travis:own version.
Sean:Very much so. Cool. But, yeah, I think they did a really good job. And and every year that I've watched it, and as I've gotten more invested in the actual contest, I pick up on more nods and references in the movie, which has also been really fun. Like, there's some obvious, like, oh, cameos.
Sean:Okay, great. There's this one, they do a medley, at one point, everybody's singing, and there's like 7 or 8 prior Eurovision contestants that are cool.
Travis:Okay, so they like made it there's like little love letters to actual fans in there. Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Sean:I even noticed this year that, when I was watching the movie, at no point that I was able to catch were there more than 6 people on stage. And that's a rule of Eurovision. If you're a band, you can only have up to 6 members on the stage.
Travis:On the stage, but you could have can you have more members and like, can they swap out during a performance or just
Sean:Oh, like, like, for the performance sake, like 6 people are who you're allowed to send in.
Travis:Yeah, okay. Yeah. Cool.
Sean:But yeah, there's like, so there's some clear nods. And then there's, like, subtler nods, you know, like, Graham Norton getting they pass the Graham Norton he's always announcing. And then there's, like, another guy sitting next to him who, can't remember his name offhand, but he's one of the guys from this site called WeWe Blogs, which is one of the biggest blogging platforms for Eurovision. And I'm like, oh, holy crap. I didn't notice that guy was there.
Travis:There's some other random person like I wouldn't recognize at all, but he's yeah. Meaningful okay that's cool because I recognize Graham Norton you know I see like clips of his talk show or whatever you know that he does like all the time but
Sean:yeah he's all over the place right
Travis:yeah but
Sean:yeah no I I think I think the movie did a really good job I'm I'm happy with it
Travis:for sure. Real to life. Yeah. Except hopefully not the part where the guy, like, blows up the boat and murders everyone. And Yeah.
Travis:Hopefully, the drama doesn't go that far. Yeah.
Sean:I I'd prefer that not be, like, purposeful. I do love the whole premise of, like, we wanna make sure we don't win because we don't wanna have to host because we can't afford it.
Travis:Is that the thing? Like, is that how hosting happens? Gets chosen?
Sean:So the winner of the contest, has the opportunity to host the following year. It isn't mandated. So, like, the movie is a little hyperbolic that way, but it's fun. The if you don't want to host or you cannot host, there you it will then be hosted by one of what's called the big five. And the big five are Italy, France, Spain, UK, and Germany.
Sean:Okay. And basically, you know, they put a bit more money behind it all because they can, and therefore, like, they get some special privileges. One would be they're the backup for hosting. Another is they actually auto qualify to the final every year. And so you'll always have the big five plus the winner of the last year will always be in the final.
Sean:And then the 20 that are selected out of the semifinals are added. And so you'll have either 25 or 26, in the grand final at the end of it. Interesting.
Travis:When you say the one that was the winner last year, just the country that was the winner, like it's not the same act.
Sean:Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Travis:So you don't like go defend your title or whatever?
Sean:You can. There's nothing that prevents you.
Travis:Okay, oh, yeah. Does that happen? So there's no there's no like exclusion for past participation?
Sean:No, there's there's no exclusion. There's there's not a ton of exclusion actually on on what artist is allowed to go in. Most of the time, you'll see some lesser known names end up going in. But there are definitely times big established brands and people have gone in before. And So
Travis:they'll like send a ringer basically like, oh, yeah, we were gonna send somebody that everybody knows already. And
Sean:Yeah. So which some countries shy away from a little bit because it's like, well, what if they don't perform well then? And like that established artists also might not want to bother because like, if they get 20th place out of 25, and they're, you know, big, big name, that's not gonna look so good. Right? So, but, yeah, there's there's no limit there and you can go in as many times as you want.
Sean:In fact, the woman who won last year, Loreen, also won in 2012. So she returned 11 years later and secured her second victory.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:Only the second person ever to win more than once.
Travis:Oh, okay. All right. Well, that's cool. It's impressive and spread apart pretty good too.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, no, not a lot of limitation there. The main limitation on artists would be you have to be at least 16 years old on the day it happens. Which wasn't always the case.
Sean:I think it was 1988, a 13 year old girl won, and she will forever remain the youngest winner ever. Oh, that's cool. Interesting. Okay. What have I not asked you about Eurovision that I should have asked you about Eurovision?
Sean:Well, I mentioned we talked to some moment about the big names, right? So just a couple of names to throw out there for yourself and anybody listening of like, Woah, I wouldn't have realized they did this thing I never heard of. Some of these were, I would say established before they took part in some were, like, they now are just a worldwide name. Probably most salient, especially this year is ABBA. Okay.
Sean:So ABBA won Eurovision in 1974, 50 years ago with the song Waterloo. Okay. And so like, when I found out, I was like, holy that, you know, Waterloo, that's a Eurovision thing. Okay. Cool.
Travis:That explains why they because they sing that in the, in the movie, like, the I think in them, like, the medley scene,
Sean:like, the the medley song.
Travis:Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Okay.
Sean:Yeah. That explains that. Yeah. And it was, like, kind of a big deal this year too because Sweden won last year. So it was hosted in Sweden on the 50th anniversary of ABBA winning.
Sean:Okay. Everyone was, like, are we finally gonna get an ABBA comeback? But no, they they they didn't wanna come out and do it. So instead, every national final just had their own little, montage to it. Yeah.
Sean:Okay. But yeah. So you've had ABBA 1988. You had, Celine Dion. She went in for Switzerland, actually.
Travis:Interesting. Oh, I didn't know she's, Swiss or she's British Citizenship or whatever. Yeah. Because she's I mean, now at least she lives in Canada.
Sean:Yeah. Now she is Canadian. And this is where, like, the rules are a little murky, you know. Okay. They're actually France last year also was a Canadian woman that that went in and performed for France.
Sean:Alright. And how did it come to pass with Celine? I'm actually not sure. But there are certain countries that either you have a tie to the country and they'll let you in or some that are just like, will accept anybody. Probably the most prominent on that front would be San Marino, which I didn't even know was a country until I got invested.
Sean:Just tiny little dot in the center of Italy. You know, population of what, like 3,000 or so. Yeah. So anybody can come in from there. And it's kind of a trend that if you put a song up to your country, and it doesn't get selected to be in it, you go over to San Marino and try to get in through there.
Sean:And we actually a couple years ago, Flo Rida was on stage for San Marino with some other people.
Travis:What? That's crazy.
Sean:I know. I know. It was like, what are you doing here, Flo?
Travis:Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Okay. Alright. I like I like that.
Sean:That's cool. To rattle off a couple other names, Olivia Newton John.
Travis:Uh-huh.
Sean:She was in for the UK in 1974. Okay. Actually, alongside Abba, funny enough. Yeah. Julio Iglesias
Travis:Uh-huh.
Sean:1970. He was in there. Bonnie Tyler, if you know the name.
Travis:Vaguely familiar.
Sean:What's the name of that song that she did? Total Eclipse from the Heart. Oh, okay. It is.
Travis:Yeah.
Sean:So she was on and then this guy, I only know the name because my grandma was in love with him. His name is Engelbert Humperdinck.
Travis:Oh, I've heard that name for sure.
Sean:Yeah. He's, like, Tom Jones era crooner style. He was actually in for the UK in 2012, which is way later than I would have expected for a name like that. Yeah. But, but, yeah, like, it's surprising when you kinda dig through, you start to see something some names and you're like, wow, didn't even know Eurovision existed.
Sean:And sure enough, these bands were there. Yeah. There's a metal band named Nightwish that I was a big fan of growing up to kind of symphonic metal. And, they came in 2nd in Finland's national final back in, like, 2,000 or so. Okay.
Sean:So the more I dig, the more I'm finding artists and groups that I'm familiar with now. And I think that's kind of a fun one to to discover.
Travis:Yeah. That's cool. Okay. I like that.
Sean:Very cool. What else? Aside from the participants, there's actually also interval x that'll go on. And there have been a couple through history that, you know, maybe stand out or, like, are recognizable. Are you familiar with Riverdance?
Sean:It's Yeah. Right?
Travis:Yeah. I remember, like, the I mean, like, I remember childhood whenever, you know, like, late nineties, maybe that was, like, a thing all of a sudden. Yeah.
Sean:Yes. Yeah. Late nineties is good. Because in 1994, Michael Flatley with Riverdance were an interval act in Eurovision. And that's actually, like, one of the reasons they really became known and started to blow up.
Sean:Okay. So you've had them. You've had Cirque Du Soleil. We've had Justin Timberlake and Madonna performing.
Travis:Okay. You know,
Sean:it's kinda like halftime show. It's your performance.
Travis:Yeah. Like bringing somebody cool, different, whatever. Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. You get a little bit of all. Other fun facts, Australia got an invite to be a part of it, in 2015. It was an invite as part of the 60th contest.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:They're, like, almost related to the EBU, but not quite, but enough that they're, like, come on in. They had actually been broadcasting it themselves since the eighties, and Australia is known to be, like, particularly into the contest.
Travis:I could see that. Yeah.
Sean:So they were invited in and, it was gonna be a one off, but then they they got the go ahead and now they they're just a permanent fixture, which I'm happy about. I I kinda like their entries.
Travis:Yeah. I mean, that's so so there's precedent for bringing in more countries that aren't literally are not even close to being in Europe?
Sean:From that, you it seems like a nod, you know, fingers crossed.
Travis:It could be interesting.
Sean:You know, is global vision gonna become a thing? Who knows? Right? Yeah. There have been some spin offs that have been attempted, or or that exists.
Sean:So there's a junior Eurovision. It takes place on, like, the opposite end of the year. I don't really follow that at all myself, honestly. NBC got the rights to, broadcast a few years ago, and so they they tried out the American Song Contest. It was hosted by Kelly Clarkson and Snoop Dogg.
Sean:And, I know. I know. It was like, okay. That did not go well. It was cancelled after one run.
Sean:So that didn't pan out. And then, Canada was thinking about doing one and it was going to be called Eurovision Canada, which I absolutely adore as a name.
Travis:Like they didn't even try to, like, change it. They just Yeah. Okay.
Sean:Alright. So, yeah, I I don't know if
Travis:that still happened. Does the Canadian one like
Sean:It never did. No. Okay. I'm not sure exactly what didn't pan out. I was thinking about it the other week.
Sean:I was like, wait a second. I could have sworn they were talking about that for 2023. Where'd it go?
Travis:And it's
Sean:kind of quiet out there. I don't know Maybe
Travis:you realize like, oh, if we did every province, that's still not very many. There aren't very many people in those northern provinces.
Sean:Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Travis:That's the, the American one reminds makes me think of how we, we, our family, we like to watch the Great British Baking Show. Love that show. But what I, and then, but if you watch that and then you watch any like American cooking baking contest show, the difference to me is always very stark. It's like the American one is like hype up the drama. Like there's so like we need drama, drama, drama, drama, drama, and compared to the British one is like, it's kinda, it's cool.
Travis:It's fine. It's whatever. You know?
Sean:Yeah. Right. Like the worst thing that happened in GBBO was, Bin Gate. I think they call it.
Travis:Yes. Where he Yes, where he likes somebody put this thing in the freezer and put their move, pull this thing out and he just dumped it in the trash can.
Sean:Oh, no.
Travis:That was that was like very controversial. Yes.
Sean:Yeah. But I think it's it's kind of similar. You know, America is like, okay, we're gonna do this thing. And then they they gamified it a bit more like we tend to do. They did weekly eliminations and all this.
Travis:Like, it's like, just let it be just let it be what it is. Yeah.
Sean:One big day to celebrate. Send in your votes and move on. I think there's a beauty to that. Yeah.
Travis:Cool. Alright. So I assume that Eurovision is like growing in popularity, especially with, like, the movie that came out is or do you have a sense of that? Is it like
Sean:I'm not entirely sure. I will admit, I've been disappointed in the lack of Europeans that I have met when traveling in Europe who watch this thing. I'm having a hard enough time. Like, thank you for bringing me on to do this because most of the time, I'm ranting at people that are like, I don't wanna hear it. Just please stop.
Sean:I'm having a hard enough time finding engaged audiences in America. And so every time I go to Europe, I was in Dublin or in Ireland back in April, and I'm like, anybody? Eurovision? No? Yeah.
Sean:You? You? No?
Travis:Yeah. It's, like, coming up. It's, like, right it's it's in season. Like yeah.
Sean:Yeah. It it was it's it's surprising. Like, it's not, not as taken to as I maybe, you know, on the outsider Glanton would have thought. Now that doesn't say anything about growing and shrinking. I think, like Sure.
Sean:Different countries that my, you know, reading between lines or trying to, like, take a stab at it, it feels like different countries kinda wax and wane in their enjoyments and investments in it. But I'm not aware of any like major surge up or down, that I've come across or heard of. So it might just be kind of like riding its line right now.
Travis:My brand new podcast will be the thing that that tips it over the edge for sure. We'll spread the gospel in your vision. The next
Sean:thing you know, 80% of all voting came from America because of these 2 guys deciding to just chat after a conference.
Travis:Yes. We get a royalty fee on that, I think.
Sean:Oh, yes, please. Or just like send us to Eurovision to interview some people and do a podcast from there. Yeah.
Travis:Yeah, we can do like a like an on location.
Sean:Yeah, that's perfect. I've actually been surprised by some of like the YouTubers out there with only like, like 2 to 5000 views on their videos. And yet they're like, they're with press badges, to interview these these folks. And like, I've seen remote interviews done from people in the States that are just like, why why is this artist like taking this? You know, like, there's gotta be someone bigger.
Sean:But, I don't know. Maybe there's some hope. Maybe I'll,
Travis:maybe that's your maybe that's your next thing. You like, go like, all in. Make that your life. Yeah.
Sean:Then I can do all the interviewing leading up, during those free parties and then come back and host my event here at Anal. Awesome.
Travis:Cool. All right. Well, we've been chatting for a while. Before we before we get off, I have, like, some lightning round questions totally unrelated to Eurovision. Just Beautiful.
Travis:Questions. Do you have a favorite book that you have read recently or or any time that you recommend?
Sean:Yeah. Let's see. So I'm not the biggest reader to be honest. My my partner would argue, yes, you do read, but you read facts and blogs and articles and research. So in terms of, like, books and novels, I really enjoyed not too long ago, I finally read How to Win Friends and Influence People.
Travis:Yep.
Sean:I actually bought it in German to try to, like, get back into my German language game. Woah. Okay. Yeah. It's like Wiehmahnfreunde, they come to something like that.
Sean:But I haven't actually read it in German yet.
Travis:Okay.
Sean:I think that's a pretty good one.
Travis:Classic for a reason. Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. In like my childhood wonder era, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams always held a very special place in my heart. I just love the it just like the creativity of the world that he built, and kind of the boundlessness of it. Kinda like why I love Doctor Who as well, I would say.
Travis:You know, I have never I have never read that book or watched Doctor Who, which doesn't make sense because both of those things what what I know about them, like, this should be right up my alley. So I should add them to my list.
Sean:There's a few books by Douglas Adams to that you could go through, and they definitely flesh out the world a lot more. But there's also a movie with, Martin Freeman in Most Steff, for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. I actually just Yeah. Yeah. It's been worth a watch.
Sean:Okay. I re I went back through it. My my wife finally decided she was willing to try it out with me. And so we watched it a couple weeks ago, and it still held up. I enjoyed it.
Sean:Nice. Cool. Otherwise, books, I'm a little lackluster on. A lot of my reading time nowadays is studying the orthography of languages because Yeah. Euro yeah.
Sean:You tried to do lightning round on Eurovision, but I'm reading a bunch of lyrics in Cyrillic languages, so now I have to learn how to, like, at least read and pronounce it, you know?
Travis:Clearly. Yes.
Sean:Yeah. So Alright.
Travis:That's cool. A lot of research
Sean:types up like that for me.
Travis:Okay. I like that. Very cool. Do you have a favorite, movie or TV show either recently or like all time favorite, you know, that you that you recommend?
Sean:The Lord of the Rings like original trilogy and just general franchise has to be on the list for me. I fell in love when I was 11 years older or so when it came out. And that's never gone away. I can rewatch it multiple times a year and cry every single time. I've been enjoying The Rings of Power enough.
Sean:I know it's
Travis:gonna ask you. It's got some more It's controversial.
Sean:It is. It is. I'm just here for the content. So like, you can do no wrong. I might not think it's as good, but, like, I'm still gonna enjoy it.
Travis:Yeah. I hear I see people getting, like, really worked up about it. It's like, well, this doesn't make sense because I'm like, but it's more Tolkien stuff. Like, that's great. Like, let's watch it.
Sean:Yeah. For sure. Exactly. Exactly. On the TV front, Doctor Who has been one I've been doing a lot.
Sean:I've watched it since 2005 as it was coming out. But I got my partner, she's now watching through it with me as well. So we've been doing a lot of that. There's a TV show from I think, like, 2,005 called Fringe. That's all about like fringe sciences.
Sean:And it's not out of the vein of a Doctor Who where there's multiple universes and all sorts of stuff going on. And they're investigating that as like, from a police angle. I I love that, that show as well.
Travis:Cool. Awesome. And do you have a favorite place that you have visited or lived, but, you know, favorite place that you've you've been?
Sean:Yeah, I think. So I just got to Ireland for the first time this year. And all of my ancestors come from Ireland. I'm 3rd generation. So it's been a little bit, but, like, both sides of my family, all from South County Cork, Ireland.
Sean:Okay. And it really felt like home. I gotta say being over there. Really, it just felt right. So that's probably gonna have to be top of my list.
Sean:Yeah. But that being said, Iceland was also something special for me from like an outdoorsy perspective, hiking, wandering, waterfalls, like, it's just unlike any landscape that I've come across.
Travis:Totally unique scenery, right? Yeah.
Sean:Yeah. And the people are just absolutely lovely, over there as well. So those are my top 2. I guess anything that's I blank e land is, highlight.
Travis:Yeah. You're hitting, 2 for 2 on that one.
Sean:Yeah. Exactly.
Travis:Good. I like it. Okay. Cool. I've not been to Iceland.
Travis:It's been on our list for a long time, but we have been to Ireland and really, really enjoyed it. So, do you have a favorite food?
Sean:Mashed potatoes comes to mind.
Travis:That's very Irish w.
Sean:I I I tell it, like, listen. It is what it is. Yeah. And, actually, potatoes are actually in our wedding vows, because she loves potatoes. She loves French fries.
Sean:And so my vow was I would always share my potatoes with her. That's good. Her vow is that when I crave midnight breakfast, she will take me to get midnight breakfast, which also happens.
Travis:Oh, I get it.
Sean:It. But I think crab cakes aside from potatoes, something a little bit richer. Crab cakes are very much up there for me. I like that. Yeah.
Sean:It's a
Travis:little little, it feels like something that most people probably don't think about very often. But I'll eat crab cakes. If I see them on the menu, it's like, yeah, I'll order crab cakes.
Sean:Yeah. Growing up, we didn't eat a lot of seafood. My mom told us she was allergic. I don't believe her. She just didn't like the smell.
Travis:She just didn't like it.
Sean:Yeah. So in my twenties, when I finally became an adult and started living for myself, I'm like, oh, seafood's amazing and incredible
Travis:taste. World. Yeah. Oh
Sean:my god. Incredible. Yeah. And I have lived in in Maryland
Travis:Oh, yeah.
Sean:For a couple years. So, you know, cream of the crop there.
Travis:Easy access. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all the questions I've got, Sean.
Travis:I super appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking to me about Eurovision and just chatting. It's been a blast.
Sean:Yeah, man. I am really happy we randomly found each other in a random Slack at a random conference, and they invited me on. I need this outlet. So it was really great. Thank you so much.
Travis:Great. We'll have to, maybe we'll come back and do, do another episode in the spring when it's on season, you know, like maybe leading up or
Sean:Yeah.
Travis:Do a post, you know, do a post mortem after the finals next year.
Sean:I'm down, man. I I'll I'll be stacked with, like, you know, specific information about the entries of the year. So Yeah. We can do a little tour through it. That sounds great.
Sean:Love it.
Travis:Cool. Alright. Well, super appreciate it, Sean. And is there, oh, is there anywhere that people should book to find you online? Or like, what's your Yeah, where are
Sean:you? You know, I'm thinking about that. Like I should find a way to have an online presence. I haven't been much of a social media junkie historically, but was it I think, on Twitter or x, Sean Naughton, I just made it. So there's like no content in there yet.
Travis:Okay. Cool.
Sean:Probably where I'll be posting.
Travis:Excellent. I'm I'm too active on Twitter. So I'll, follow you there and drag you, you know, like, pull you kicking and screaming into participating there.
Travis:Yeah. I'll put I'll put a
Travis:link in the shoutouts.
Sean:I know. And on on Instagram, if you go to Sean Nailed It, that is one I have a bit more content. I also, like, custom paint my own nails, and I've done a decent amount of nail art. So you can check that out too.
Travis:Excellent. Cool. I'll put a link in the link in the show notes for that too.
Sean:Perfect.
Travis:Cool. Alright, Sean. Well, I'll, talk to you, you know, around.
Sean:Sounds like a plan. Thanks again for having me, Travis.
Travis:See you.
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